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tomei



Joined: 07 Oct 2008
Posts: 1
Country: Singapore

Post installation Reply with quote
Dear All,

Appreciate any help which you guys can assist me on.

I am totally new to this software and tried to install the multi os for the 24x7 scheduler.

it keeps prompting me to make sure that the JDK or JRE installtion is correct.

What does this mean?

I cannot proceed further without solving it.

If you guys can provide me a solution or step by step guide on how to install it, i would be very grateful to you.

Cheers
Tue Oct 07, 2008 2:30 am View user's profile Send private message
SysOp
Site Admin


Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 7842

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You need to Java 1.4 installed on the system where you install this software. It must be Java 1.4 and not some other version. Java is not backward or forward compatible.
Tue Oct 07, 2008 7:25 pm View user's profile Send private message
SysOp
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Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 7842

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Please tell me on which type of system you want to install the software and I will help you to find installation program for the required Java version.
Tue Oct 07, 2008 7:26 pm View user's profile Send private message
jgro



Joined: 09 Oct 2008
Posts: 16
Country: United States

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SysOp wrote:
You need to Java 1.4 installed on the system where you install this software. It must be Java 1.4 and not some other version. Java is not backward or forward compatible.


Are you kidding? You mean I can't use the schedule along with my Java 5 web app? I get this error when I run master.sh:

ERROR: Unsupported Java version. Version 1.4.2 is required! You are using 1.5.0_14-b03

but I was hoping that was just a bug in your version checking/parsing because of the -b03.

Is there a Java 5 compatible version coming? If so, when?
Thu Oct 09, 2008 5:57 pm View user's profile Send private message
SysOp
Site Admin


Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 7842

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Quote:
Are you kidding?
I assume you meant to ask Sun Microsystems this questions. Let me then suggest the correct question which is "How come that Java versions are not backward or forward compatible?" The answer, they are not. Period. And don't try to run your Java 5 web application using Java 1.6. If this is a real complex application and not "hello world" stuff, most likely it will not run correctly and you will see it breaking here and there. More over even different same-version Java distributions are not compatible. Make sure you grab the distribution designed by your system vendor and certified for compatibility, just forget the 'write once, run anywhere' marketing myth.

Now back to business.. You can have multiple java versions installed on the same system and run different applications using different versions. That's the way it is supposed to work. The good news, it is actually very simple. Just copy the required JRE version to a subdirectory of the application, in the local application settings set JAVA_HOME and you are done.


[/quote]
Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:37 pm View user's profile Send private message
jgro



Joined: 09 Oct 2008
Posts: 16
Country: United States

Post Reply with quote
SysOp wrote:
Quote:
Are you kidding?
I assume you meant to ask Sun Microsystems this questions. Let me then suggest the correct question which is "How come that Java versions are not backward or forward compatible?" The answer, they are not. Period.


While major revisions such as happened with Java 5 do break some things (I believe Sun's official list is about 25), Java 5 has been out for 4 years now and it is not a big challenge to upgrade Java 1.4 source code to compile under Java 1.4 and run on Java 5 unless you are relying on behaviors that were outside of the Java spec or in gray areas of interpretation of the spec, which is also where you run into trouble with differing vendors implementations of Java VMs. Such updated code will continue to work on Java 1.4 as well. Java 5 is not 100% backwards compatible, but it's very close.

I am very suspicious of commercial Java software that as of this date does not have a working Java 5 version. More to the point, I don't want to deal with integrating software that doesn't run under Java 5 with all the software we have written that requires Java 5 if I don't have to. So the question remains, when (if ever) are you planning on releasing a version of your scheduler that runs under Java 5?
Thu Oct 09, 2008 7:30 pm View user's profile Send private message
SysOp
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Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 7842

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Quote:
Java 5 has been out for 4 years now and it is not a big challenge to upgrade Java 1.4


First of all, your assumption is wrong. Migrating 24x7 from 1.4 to 1.5 (or 1.6) requires is a major challenge, and requires major code rewrites. It is not as simple as updating several Java libraries as you might think. Java backward compatibility is seriously broken in every version. I'm not talking about introduction of new keywords and other "minor" syntax things listed by Sun. I am talking about functional changes, memory corruptions, internal thread synchronization issues, Swing internal event queueing issues, etc,.etc…

We are in a process of rewriting significant chunks of 24x7 code and already spent half a year working on that stuff, all because of the broken backward compatibility. Moreover, third party components written in older Java versions are sensitive to Java versions too and need to be updated too, which is also a major pain in a neck.



Secondary, not all Unix systems yet have Java version 1.5 available (not even mention 1.6). Surprised?

When new rewritten 24x7 version, becomes available it will be released as anew major version upgrade and yet we will be still supporting older version for systems not having 1.5 and 1.6 Java available.

Code:
I am very suspicious of commercial Java software that as of this date does not have a working Java 5 version
That's because you are not very familiar with the market. Are you? Do you know how long it took Oracle to move from JDK 1.4 to JDK 1.5 in their Oracle db? or IBM to port their web servers and applications from JDK 1.2 to JDK 1.3 or later to 1.4/ 1.5?



Anyway, the discussion started above is a waste of time. We're happy to help you with specific how-to questions or help with troubleshooting problems. If you have any, please post each of them in a separate topic for easy of tracking.
Thu Oct 09, 2008 8:32 pm View user's profile Send private message
jgro



Joined: 09 Oct 2008
Posts: 16
Country: United States

Post Reply with quote
SysOp wrote:

Quote:
I am very suspicious of commercial Java software that as of this date does not have a working Java 5 version
That's because you are not very familiar with the market. Are you? Do you know how long it took Oracle to move from JDK 1.4 to JDK 1.5 in their Oracle db? or IBM to port their web servers and applications from JDK 1.2 to JDK 1.3 or later to 1.4/ 1.5?


No, I don't know how long it took. In the examples you cited, those vendors added significant new features and replaced proprietary features with new standard features while maintaining some kind of backward compatibility with their old proprietary features, so however long it took is not just because Sun "broke" backward compatibility.

I do know that by now WebLogic runs on Java 5, Websphere runs on Java 5, JBoss runs on Java 5, Oracle runs Java 5, Mac, Windows, Red Hat, Fedora, Ubuntu, and Debian all run Java 5 and have for over a year. Flux (the very same JARs) runs on Java 1.4, Java 5, and Java 6. All of the vendors I'm dealing with consider Java 1.4 legacy support. So what part of the market are you saying I'm not familiar with?

SysOp wrote:
Java backward compatibility is seriously broken in every version. I'm not talking about introduction of new keywords and other "minor" syntax things listed by Sun. I am talking about functional changes, memory corruptions, internal thread synchronization issues, Swing internal event queueing issues, etc,.etc…


This is what scares me. While it is true that bug fixes technically break backwards compatibility in that programs that used to work one way now work differently, robust software should not be adversely affected by bug fixes. If you are having problems with memory corruption and thread synchronization issues moving forward from 1.4 to 5, it points to a lack of robustness in the design of the system under 1.4. Whether the problem is in the third party components you are using or not, it's still an issue that unit testing may never find a problem due to a quirk of how a specific JVM handles a situation despite the software not being theoretically sound. Then you change JVMs and all of a sudden, for example, a race condition that was never a problem before becomes a problem. So it worries me to trust software that you are finding so hard to migrate.
Thu Oct 09, 2008 10:12 pm View user's profile Send private message
SysOp
Site Admin


Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 7842

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Nobody is forcing you to choose this particular software package. You are free to compare it to others, compare features, compare costs, and make an intelligent choice.

Our main goals and priorities aren't targeting some specific Java or non- Java version. Our main priorities are meeting and exceeding our customers requirements and providing them with robust and secure solutions they need at affordable cost, running on many different platforms; providing them with superior support. It's no surprise that a vast majority or people don't care where the solution is utilizing internally Java 1.5, Java 88.xx, NET or some ABCDEF.
Thu Oct 09, 2008 11:14 pm View user's profile Send private message
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